Introducing Mark Fitzgerald a Rent 2 Rent Kickstarter ROCKSTAR!

Mark got 4 rent to rent properties in just 4 months of joining the Rent 2 Rent Kickstarter Programme.

And since then, he’s really started flying and now has 9 properties in total.

Before joining Mark was sceptical about whether it would work…

Hello and welcome to another Rent to Rent Rockstar blog.

This week I’m here with Rent to Rent Rockstar, Mark Fitzgerald. Mark has been an absolute superstar. He came on our coaching course in January and I just knew that he was somebody who would be successful because he soaks up every bit of information and was always there when we did the live coaching course.

He has a lovely generous personality as well. He's always first in line to answer any questions from new people within the group.

So, I'm really excited, delighted, thrilled and lots of other things to introduce to you Mark Fitzgerald from MRF Properties.

Mark: Hello there, it’s nice to be on. Thank you.

Stephanie: We were just chatting earlier, and I can't believe it's actually four properties that you're in the process of! But before we go into the property side of things, I want to talk a bit about you. What were you doing before?

Mark: I've spent the last 15 years in the corporate world. I worked in a manufacturer for motor homes and started at the bottom and worked my way to the top and became Production Manager.
It wasn't until the beginning of last year I had an injury on my ankle. I was laid up basically for about three months - I couldn't do anything.

My sister and myself were looking at buying a buy to let as a potential pension and a nest egg. I sat on the couch and I googled, ‘how to make money in property’ and this whole world opened up to me. It was unbelievable – information about purchase lease options, rent to rent.

I started reading books - I haven't read books for years, but I spent a good six months getting to know the ins and outs of what you can do in property. And my dream has always been to build my own business, but I've never really been sure what that business was going to be.
So, I thought to myself, I think I could build a business in property. For me it really all started when I injured myself, and as my sister says, I had an epiphany!

I've come out of my shell because before that I was corporate, corporate, corporate. I was trying to get promotions at work. Now I look back, I've actually missed a lot of my kids growing up as well - plays and sports days as I've always been at work.

I started to think to myself, I can start my own business. I can also have more time so that at least I can give my kids and family the time that they need. I don't mind hard work, I've never shied away from that.

Stephanie: And how old are your kids, Mark?

Mark: They are 13 and 7 going on 16.

Stephanie: So great ages to be at home with and you can get them involved in the business as well, which is really exciting. You said you found out about this new world and then started reading a lot of things and then we got in touch around December last year.

Mark: Last August/September time, I became a member of one of your Facebook groups, and I remember as a newbie, you always introduced whoever was new in the group. I just put a caption at the bottom to say I was happy to be here and hoping to invest in an HMO in the future.
And we had a bit of a discussion and I thought it was really nice because there's somebody who has her own Facebook group and was obviously doing very well for themselves.

You spent 20 minutes having a conversation and I resonated with that and that is really why when I saw that you were offering a training platform, I wanted to get in touch.

I messaged you a question on Christmas Day and I didn't think I was going to get reply but you did on boxing day.

Stephanie: I know that you'd gone into the original letters that we put out there and you sent them out and you also sent me a copy of your letter and asked for some comments.
That’s what I loved about you because you didn't have the whole picture at that stage, but you took the bit that you did know and after you'd got a bit of feedback, you then sent the letters out.

Mark: Yes. I just think you've got to get out there whether it's perfect or not, you need to get something out there and then work on it.
I did have a letter and then with your guidance and help, I was able to tweak my letter and make it a polished article. I'm quite proud of my letter.

Stephanie: I love your branding, the whole thing. Can I ask you what you were worried about? Especially when you're making a pretty big investment - what were you worried about before getting into the course?

Mark: If I'm honest with you, I didn't think rent to rent would work. When I was reading about it, I was one of those naysayers - I wouldn't have done training, I wouldn't have done anything because I knew it all. If I didn't know I could get it off the internet or I could read a book.

But then I started to go out and network and talk to people who were doing it. And they all pretty much said the same thing that they learned from other people that are doing it and learned how to do it and do it the right way.
So, for me, I'd love to build up my own rent to rent and lettings business where I can offer a service, that will be a great service to tenants and also a service to look after the properties of landlords.

But I want to do it in such a way that it offers more of a customer service to both parties and a better peace of mind. And it's very difficult as you're starting out to get that across because it's all just words.
But now I've got the deals in place, I can put this into practice, and I want to give a good customer relation and feedback to tenants as well.

And that's really what it's all about for me. It's about building a business where I eventually start buying my own portfolio, and when it comes to renting it out, I can just give that to my own business to rent out for me - and I know it's been looked after perfectly.

Stephanie: Yes, I absolutely agree with you Mark. I think that's the one area that many people want to be hands off full time because they give it to letting agencies and then you don't have as much control.
They're not as interested in your business. And even if you've got a good one - things could still go bad if they get the wrong staff and your properties can go downhill.

Whereas when you've got your own team, your own business that's running it, like we have, you know what's happening, you know the systems, you can oversee it yourself and you've got control to change things that aren't working much easier than if it's outsourced.

When you started the online course, what were your expectations and how did you find it?

Mark: You do a zoom call first to make sure that the people are right for the course. We had a chat and I think I was sat in my car because I was on holiday! I just resonated with you and Nicky – I liked the fact it's a step by step guide.
If somebody shows you the path and you follow the path and do as you're told, so trust the process, then the outcome should be the same as theirs.
As long as you follow what they've done because what they've done works, don't reinvent it. If I follow all the steps, which is what I've tried to do, whatever I'm asked to do (within reason) I should do and see what happens.

Stephanie: That's why you're the perfect person to work with Mark because you make us look good!

Someone has asked on the Facebook group, “What was the step-by-step procedures that you took to get your first deal?” Now that’s a big question!

Mark: Yes, it is! It all starts with you! A lot of people want to get out of their jobs and get themselves enough money to be able to leave work.
Some people want to build a business, some people want a lifestyle. You are the first step and you've got to look at what you want and where you want to be.

And I think you've really got to look at the next 5 and 10 years and say, if I do this, where am I going to be in five years’ time? Where am I going to be in 10 years’ time? And that for me is the first steppingstone. I hate to say it, but it's the old ‘Why’.

For me it is building a business and a legacy for my children and for my family – for my wife and my kids, my sister, my mother and my mother in law.
Everybody has been so supportive that I couldn't do what I've done now without them. And my family and my close friends and my wife and I want to be able to give something back as well.

So, if I can get this into a really good position, I don't know where it's going to go, but I know where I want it to go, and where I'm going to try and get it to go.
But wherever it goes, these guys are on that journey with me and I'm just making sure that I'm not going to let them down.

Stephanie: They must be so proud of you because it was quick - the speeds that you've done it and also the certainty that you've done it, even though you sort of had lingering doubts, which we all do.

Mark: Just to go back to that question, it’s all about following the process, and having a strong reason why - know why you're doing it and then get yourself educated.

Stephanie: I would just say you've got your top level of what to do to get your first deal, but we do also talk about mindset - you've got to work on your mind so that you can believe that you can do it.
It won't be an immediate thing, but it's something consciously you've got to do as you go through. Because the procedure is really simple, and the reason why people don't do it is because of their own mind.

The next thing is you want to set up your business, but you want to do minimal to be compliant without spending a fortune. Get everything in place you need to be a fully compliant business.

And we'll show you how to do that very cost effectively. So, you put your business in place and then the next thing is you want to market it - that's writing to the landlords and calling the agents and going on viewings.
And that's basically the small part, but obviously it's more complex in the detail and that's where you might need assistance.

My next question to you Mark is what was it like setting up your business?

Mark: To be quite honest I didn't understand that. I didn't realise everything that you needed first and foremost to be legally compliant, which is very important to me to make sure that everything is the way it should be.

But, setting the business up itself, I got an accountant to do that, so that costs more than your average setting it up, but that's for my peace of mind. You don't have to do it that way.

It takes a couple of hours really to fill out the forms, you need your business set up and you need to make sure that you're compliant and follow the compliances. I think the longest thing is just waiting for the bank account.

Stephanie: And I encourage people to go and have a look at Mark's branding because you've done all that part and you've also got that fantastic brand for MRF properties. And what's your website Mark?

Mark: The website's not actually up and running at the moment. It was up for a while, but I've taken it down because it wasn't good enough for me, so I'm getting that work done.

Stephanie: It just goes to show that some things are a bit longer term. It’s great to have a website, but you didn't necessarily need everything in place at the beginning, but you'll see if you look at MRF Property's on Facebook, the branding looks amazing.

Mark: The name is not exactly original or anything, I’ve used my initials, but that is my legacy. Because my little dream is that when my kids, if they have kids one day, say, “why is it called that?”, and they can say it was your Grandad who started it all off!

Stephanie: Now this is a question from Ingrid who is also one of our Kickstarters.
How did you manage the balance of setting up your rent to rent business alongside your other commitments?

Mark: Basically, I stopped watching TV or doing anything at night apart from focusing on my business. I'd go to work, and finish at 5.00pm, I'd come home and make sure that I spent an hour with the kids. Then we put them to bed, and it was basically anything from 8.00pm to 10.00/11.00pm focusing on my business.

It was the weekends too - I'd have at least half a day on a Saturday. I tried to leave Sundays where I could be free for the family because you do have to have a balance.

You've got to make a sacrifice. So, when everybody sat there watching all the TV programs, which I used to watch every night too – I work on my business. I can't remember now the last time I sat and watched a TV series.

The thing is with this is it's not a chore to me. When I go to work, that was a chore because as much as I did enjoy my job it's not as fulfilling as your own business. If you don't find it a chore and it's more like a hobby, then it's more enjoyable.

I've got a little office just off the front room in my house. Don't get me wrong, it's only a table in the corner, but you've got to start somewhere. I'm still in the same room as my wife and everybody.
They can still talk to me, but I can still do things on the computer and get my marketing letter sorted and all my branding and everything like that. So, the only person stopping you realistically is you and you’ve just got to make sacrifices.

Stephanie: Yes, absolutely. I think you just get tied into making the sacrifice and you don't realise it's a sacrifice. When you're working in a 9-5, some people like their job and that's fine to them, but if you don't like your job and you feel trapped in it and you want more freedom in your life and you want all these other things, then you are sacrificing your dreams just by continuing that and not taking a chance to do whatever it is that you want to do.

And as you said, sometimes our life is very work focused but it’s not even so much on the property business because we've outsourced a lot of that now.
In fact, I'm very little involved in the day to day on the actual property management side, but now more on the side of the other things that we're beginning to do and I sometimes work seven days a week – but I haven't got little kids anymore.

You get that satisfaction from seeing what you produce. Let’s now move on to the other thing that people talk about – how do you get the deals?

Let's talk about the landlord letters and the landlords - take us through what your experience has been with them.

Mark: Letters are the best way to get the rent to rents. My way was just straight to landlord and through the letters and it's really about being persistent and just getting yourself out there. I set up a separate phone so that I knew it was landlords calling.

When the first actual landlord rang me up, I thought, what am I going to do? I just need to go for it and see what happens. I’ll be quite honest with you, it was a complete car crash. It was terrible! I came off the phone and I thought to myself, my God, I'm never going to get anywhere if I talk to everybody like that.

So, I sat down, and I gave myself 10 minutes and I wrote everything down from the conversation to see what not to do next time and I realised I need to shut up at times and listen.
Landlord letters are excellent – they are the best source. Work on your letters and make sure you stand out from the crowd.

Stephanie: Brilliant! We also have a checklist within the course of what to say to the landlords because at the beginning I was just making it up every time on what to say. And then eventually I wrote down a list and now we go quite into a lot of detail.

But I'll give you everything - so you can do it high level, or just the top line or you can delve deeper depending on how you feel. If your heart rate is beating out of your chest, sometimes you can't go deep.

Mark: It's funny because on different days, different things happen. Some days you answer the phone and everything's fine yet another day it must just be your head or something - you're like, oh my God, what am I going to do.

I have sheets in front of me and I don't always use them word for word or a checklist, but I ask the relevant questions because there's certain questions that you want to make sure that you do ask when you've got them on the phone.
And it's a chance for you to sell yourself to a point, but then you want to get to the viewing and go and speak to the landlords themselves - then the face to face is where the magic happens.

Stephanie: You just said there are some questions that are really important to ask while you're on the phone, what would you say is something that's really important to ask while on the phone?

Mark: You need to find out what the property is all about, the tenant types, how many tenants have they got? Are there any voids? Are they having trouble with voids or problem tenant not paying? I tend to delve into the tenants quite a bit.
The landlords are more interested in finding out exactly what you can offer, so trying to get the questions and answers can be quite difficult.

I like to try and get an email addresses, that's important so that you can keep in contact with them and make sure you get their name too.
Ask more about the property – is it a terraced, detached? How many rooms has it got? How many bathrooms? It's just a list of making sure that everything's there and if there's any other issues they have, because I mean, they're ringing you for a reason.

It's the thing that I've learnt and I do try on the first call to get an idea of what that reason is so that when I look at that property, I can see if I can solve that problem or the reason why they rang me.

Stephanie: Perfect Mark. Absolutely. If people call, it’s for a reason and when we can delve down into that we know that we can fix that problem.
It’s a question I get all the time. A lot you’ll learn through experience, which you haven't got at the beginning, but knowing the problem puts you a lot of the way forward in knowing how to sell your solution. And obviously you've addressed the problem first.

You've also had some time where you were doing quite a bit with agents – tell us a bit more about that.

Mark: I went around the Sheffield area and I spoke to a lot of agents. A lot of them don't really want to know when you start telling them more. I always went in with a shorter version and that I'd be the lead tenant, I'll be putting the tenants in and about how we can solve two problems - you'll get your monthly fee for it, and I’ll look after the property for you.

There's something funny about estate agents. When you get outside and look through the window you just see it's dead, there's nobody there.
So when you go in and there are three or four people sat around, you think everybody's going to be listening to my conversation and everybody's going to be thinking, oh who does he think he is and all of this and all of that! Or, oh no there's another one!

Once I did it and I did it a couple of times, I actually found I knew more about a lot of the situations and a lot of the tenancies then they did, especially when it came to the structures of the deals and things.
And I would say a few were quite interested and gave me the time of day and there were some other ones that just said no.

The secret I've found is don't go into the high street brands go into more of the private or smaller agencies as they're quite interested.
I did have one that said to me, “We haven't got anything at the moment, but we like you. We wouldn't mind talking more. If we get the opportunity, we will give you a call”. Every now and again I ring them up and check in with them. But at the moment, I've only been really focusing on the letters because they've been working so well.

Stephanie: Brilliant. And that is a golden nugget to share. What that guy said to Mark, is we like you so we want to work with you. They're not looking at experience or this or that.
They're looking at trust and the fact they like you and that's what I try to explain in the course - the agent’s scripts that we've got is very simple but very effective.
And I think people are delighted and surprised at how easy it is. It's just nice to have a roadmap from the beginning so you don’t need to try out all these wild things.

So, Mark, people are asking, how long did it take you to get your first deal? And I know there's two answers to that.

Mark: To get it over the line, it's taken a couple of months, but that's been toing and froing with the contracts and that’s from my inexperience - I should have really sat down with the landlords from the word go and gone through the contracts.
The guys that I've got my first deal with is a partnership with two landlords - they're very savvy investors and luckily, they've got a bit of patients and are quite happy to work with me.

I think it was the end of March that they agreed to do this. And then it's been from March and up until a couple of weeks ago that it's taking to get the contracts. Both parties are very happy with what they've got - it's a good contract.

Stephanie: I'm so delighted for you. And that's another takeaway, within the eight weeks you'll definitely need to have set up your business and you’ll be talking to landlords and agents, so when the right deal comes along, you are ready to jump.
Then there's the contract bit, which can sometimes take a while. Sometimes it's quick, sometimes it's not. It all depends.

Mark: I have got more deals, so I've got this one nearly over the line at the moment. But in that time, I've got another three deals in the pipeline, which I'm working on.

Stephanie: Tell us about those Mark – are they with the same landlords?

Mark: Yes, the landlords that I'm working with, have got one together and then one's got one on his own and then there's two more. One is a 20 bed HMO and the other is a 14 bed HMO.

At the moment they're in the stages of refurbishment, which the landlord's doing. I’ve got my fingers crossed, but so far so good. Everything's looking good that we'll be taking those on and getting them fully tenanted.

Stephanie: I love that – it’s such an incredible story. And also news flash to people watching, all of these landlords know that Mark is just starting up, but you can see by talking to Mark that you would trust him in your house more so than a letting agent who's not as interested, who maybe has a hundred properties and they're not really going to be on the ball with yours.
Mark is going to be 100% on the properties that he is looking after.

And that is what the landlords, especially the experience landlords who are very savvy, are looking for because they know with the letting agents they don't get what they thought they were going to get after the voids and the bills and the maintenance fee and the tendency find fee.
So, they're delighted to be working with someone like Mark who is delivering guaranteed rent.

Mark, what was that feeling like when you got your first deal?

Mark: It was good. Like I said, it's been all over the place, but it's excellent. I feel like I've got a business now, everything's been set up, everything's been compliant, everything's working in the background.
But now signing that contract you know we've done it. We've got the first one done, and the first ones surely has got to be the hardest.

Stephanie: So, another question to ask is was there a certain checklist you look for with properties?

Mark: Yes. You need to make sure that there's a market for the property, so you need to make sure that there's tenants that are looking for properties. There's a lot of HMO everywhere really, but it's about putting out the right product.
I'm very confident by the way that I'm doing things - I will be able to tenant my properties with the best tenants I can find because there's a few methods that I'm trying out, which are a bit new to myself.
It's also just a case of looking at the area and making sure that there is demand in the area.

I do look at the properties and I have seen a few properties that I'd have to spend an absolute fortune on them. Now some people will do that. I will spend up to six months’ rent - so in six months I get paid back anything over that is too much of a risk for me at this early stage.

If I've got to give it a quick refresh, that's not a problem – a bit of paint here and there. Maybe a bit of furniture, so there is a certain criteria that I look for.
You need to know your areas, know your good areas, and the not so good areas. Then look for your tenant types as well because everybody has their own different tenant types that they want to market to.
Make sure that the tenant type you want to market to is in the area that you want to look for properties. Because if you get a property in a wrong area, you’ll never get any tenants that you're hoping for. So you could fall a bit short.

Stephanie: The other golden nugget I want to say, is to look how quickly you can become an expert in this field, because Mark started in February and we're now heading towards the end of May and already he has become very experienced because he's been focusing on this every single day.

Nicky and I are coming up to three years and we've had a lot of experience and growth to a sizable business. You could go far quite quickly and I hope that's an inspiration if you're reading or watching this and thinking about starting off.

Are you able to determine how much profit is to be made just by looking at a property online?

Mark: You can get an idea, but you won’t know for sure until you set foot on that property. I would say no because you don't know what angle the picture's been taken at and you don't know what’s behind the person taking the picture.
There could be a hole in the roof behind where they're stood, but everything else looks lovely. You can give them a price and then you could be in a bit of trouble.
So, what I would say is if you have to give a quote over pictures, you must tell them it's a ballpark figure. You could pluck a number out of the sky and say, I can offer you that. But until you step foot and have a look at the property you won’t know.

It’s just like a viewing - you wouldn't buy a house without going in and looking at the house because you're spending a lot of money and you're putting a lot of time and effort into that project. And if you do well, I think you’re crazy.
You can't be precise until you've actually been in there and you've taken a look for yourself and you've made some notes. I never give a quote out beforehand or during the viewing – I say to them to give me 24 hours and I will send a quote over to them.

Stephanie: Absolutely spot on again Mark. We use our deal analyser spreadsheet which gives you really detailed numbers. We ask you to put in a lot of additional numbers for protection so that you really know if something went badly wrong, you’re still going to be profitable.

You can get our Deal Analyser here

So what is the future for you Mark? You've got 4 deals right now that you're just in the process of signing.

Mark: I must admit, when I first signed up, I thought if I can get three deals, I'll be happy. Then when we signed up and we started the business it changed all the time.
I wanted to get five deals this year and now I've set my target to 10, so I want to get 10 deals by February next year. If I don't do it, I don't do it. But I'm pretty sure I'll get quite close to that.

Stephanie: Well to be honest, you'll have to do it by units because some of yours are more than one unit. 23 units is like a five or six bed property.

Mark: In theory that pretty much puts me on a par at about seven. But I didn't really look at it like that, it’s just one big unit to me!

It's also about systemizing - I want to build it up enough so I can systemize it and I can have the computer side of it looked after, and then when it comes to the letting side, I might be able to bring on somebody part time to help me out with that as well.

I’m not looking at just taking all the money out and going on a holiday, for me it's about a business and it's about a business that over the next three years I want to get it into a stage where I can step back from it and it will run exactly how I foresee it to be run.
Then if my kids ever want to take over, they can, but if they don't, it will still be a sustainable business that has employees in it. So, for me it's the bigger picture.

Stephanie: Coming back to the coaching, I hope this isn't too hard of a question, but what did you find most useful about it?

Mark: To be honest with you, it’s you and Nicky. You put everything into it, and you're very generous – and more generous than I actually thought you would be. I don't know any other training where people get as much time and effort as we do from you.
You're active on the Facebook page a couple of times a day, and it's that holding hands experience so to speak, that if I ever had an issue I could turn to you girls and you are there for me and you still are there for me now as well. And that is priceless for me.

The charge that you put on the training is nothing in comparison to what you've actually given back to me. And I know I've thanked you, but I do thank you from the bottom of my heart because of what you've offered and what you've given us and the other guys in the group would say the same as well.
I know there's a couple of guys who are very close to their first deal.

Stephanie: Yes, they are.

Mark: That is down to the training and everything you girls set up. One of the beauties I loved as well was the feedback which I always tried to give after each module.
On one of the modules I believe, I thought I was being a little bit critical, but I told you so that you know, and within a few days, you tweaked the module and you'd added what I thought it was that was missing and it was like a light bulb moment. It was brilliant!

How many people are going to do that?

Stephanie: Oh, that's so lovely. I do feel emotional just listening to you because one of the great things about this is that you get to see other people transform. Our transformation really changed our lives.
And part of the great thing about it is we get to share that with other people. I'm sure you will do the same Mark, because you're such an inspirational guy.
You've got such a great way of talking and you know what I always say Mark, it takes the two together. Yes, we provide you with a system of the step-by-step with all the bits of paper that you need and everything there to copy, paste, edit, and tweak it to make it your own.

But then on your side, you've got to pick that up and do it. Keep your mind in focus, pick yourself back up and do it.
And also keep tweaking your mindset so that you can do the difficult things or do the things you don't want to do. And that's where it's the other side and that's all come from you.

And I'm so, so proud of you and delighted for you and excited to have you in the group. But I should just say that for anybody who does join the Kickstarter program, you do get the option to carry on in the group, and Mark has carried on in the group. And for example, tonight we have a live call with everyone who stays on in the group.

The topic is going to be how to deal with tenants you are taking on in a property. It's quite a different system and it's not really covered in the course.

But thank you so much Mark. Lastly, what advice would you give to somebody who is just thinking about getting into this?

Mark: Take action and be persistent. Also set yourself goals because they are very important, I set weekly goals and daily goals now and I make sure that I get those goals done out of the way as soon as possible.
You need to also plan for the future. If you want the future to be bright and you want to have your own business or you want to be financially free, draw yourself a map and follow that map.

That’s why I did the training and was given that map that I could follow. And if I followed the process and the other guys are doing the same and they're getting the same results as well, you will get there.

Once you get there, you can write your own map and you can look at what you want to do. I've never had a vision board, but we've got one at home now and everybody - myself, my wife, my kids, we put stuff on the vision board and then that's one of our goals. So, when we hit certain targets, we can treat ourselves, or go on that holiday.
And it works and it drives you. It’s in my office and I look at it every day and I think I'm not going to let them down.

Stephanie: I love that. And what I love as well is people often think that when you go into business you lose your family, but actually being in this kind of business it can involve your whole family.
Talking about the goals, I remember sitting in Nicky's house when she was still in Kent and we put some goals together. When we get so many houses, we'll pay ourselves this much. We're not really big designer people, but there was a little bracelet which we always felt was too much to spend on one little frivolous item.
And we said that we would buy one when we got to a certain point. We haven't bought it yet, but we will go to London and get that bracelet - it's just a little symbol for us.

Mark: And that's what you're doing it for at the end of the day. You've got to reward yourself. Otherwise you will get to a point where you just think, oh, hang on a minute. No matter where you get to, why am I doing this?
You've got to have little treats and little perks, and it’s just like you said, you’ve got to celebrate.
When you do something, celebrate it. You've opened your business, celebrate it. You don't go out and have a mad party, but just go out and have a meal or open a nice bottle of something.

I struggled with that, because for me, it's not a win until I hit the target, but now I have lots of little goals, I can celebrate each and every goal as they come along and enjoy it. We all look at the big picture at the end, but I want to enjoy this now.

I even said in a post the other day, I actually envy some of the new guys because it was all exciting and I was there and I know what it's like when you're starting out and you're starting up your business and you're trying to think of your business name and it's really exciting and really good fun. Enjoy it and don't try to rush it.

Stephanie: You've been so generous with the new people coming into the group. I really appreciated that. But I just want to thank you so much for coming on and talking about what you've done.

It's been amazing to talk to you. Is there anything you want to share with people before we close off?

Mark: Thank you to you and Nicky, and to everybody else. If you want to do it, do it. Believe in yourself and do it. And don't let anybody else tell you any different.

Stephanie: Brilliant Mark, and thanks a million. Bye for now.

What an inspirational man - we hope you enjoyed the talk with Mark and it’s answered any questions you might have had.

Speak to you soon,

Stephanie and Nicky

xx

Dream Bigger ⭐ Be Bolder ⭐ Be a Gamechanger

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